[Suggestion] Make Lightsabers Rare Again

General Feedback
#1

I think I’m not the only one that cringes when we see so many people running around with lightsabers and then you have others who make a living off of selling them.

A lightsaber should be an encredibly personal item for a jedi, and seeing one in the hands of a non-jedi should be extremely rare. There should not be an open lightsaber market.

What I propose is a way to make it harder to get/make them.

I would start by making the lightsaber engineering blueprint obtainable only by quest. This quest path will fit in with lore that requires jedi to make their own lightsaber, thereby meaning all jedi should have some amount of proficiency in engineering.

  1. The blueprint for the lightsaber would be a craftable component itself. It would require lightsaber schematics as both primary and secondary components.
  2. Each schematic would be attainable as a quest reward that
  3. The first schematic quest can be started by entering an old jedi ruin or temple and accessing a terminal.
  4. Upon completing the first quest, the player can find a hint about where to go to start the next quest for the second schematic (ex: Oh, this schematic is incomplete…looks around and finds mention of nearby lab)
  5. Second schematic quest can start when you reach the hinted-to-site and find it overrun by -insert random enemy here-
  6. On attaining the second schematic, use it on the first schematic. The schematics are replaced in your inventory with a completed schematic item.
  7. The jedi apprentice can now use that item as the secondary component in the “Lightsaber Parts” crafting blueprint. The primary component will be some already existing component that can be made through engineering.
  8. By now, the jedi apprentice should have had ample time to become proficient in engineering and should have unlocked advanced blueprints
  9. The Lightsaber engineering blueprint will be available at probably lvl 10ish engineering blueprint perks and will require the “Lightsaber Parts” component already completed, as well as a kyber crystal.
  10. In order to get to the crystal mine, or otherwise farmable spot, the jedi apprentice will need their master to lead them through a high-level dungeon. (To support the rp element and encourage master/apprentice relations in game)
  11. Once at the end of the dungeon, the master and or apprentice use a force power on something in the area to unlock the inner chamber.
  12. At this point, either put the crystals on the other side, or expand on the dungeon by creating non-combat trials for the apprentice to go through. (solving puzzles, testing force powers that they should have learned, etc)
  13. In the crystal chamber, all but the color red crystal will be available (bear with me, plot/lore)
  14. -OPTIONAL- If the apprentice is dark side, after obtaining a crystal, they can use a TBD dark force power on the crystal to turn it into a red crystal. (as I understand, current lore says that kyber crystals are actually living and the red saber is made by a dark jedi focusing all their hate and negative feelings into the crystal until it bleeds,k changing its color to blood-red)
  15. Use the obtained crystal and the Lightsaber Parts to create the lightsaber.
  16. This part is very important. The lightsaber should be durable enough so that a jedi does not easily allow it to be broken and is given enough time to repair it. Since they have become proficient in engineering by now, any jedi should be able to affect repairs as needed to their lightsaber(s)

The quest to start the path off should be repeatable for masters who simply want to provide a lightsaber for their student, which has been known to happen in SW lore, or if a jedi wants to make a second offhand saber.

I believe this will move lightsabers into the kind of rarity we’re used to seeing in the SW universe while encouraging Jedi Master/Student roleplay

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Lightsaber feeback
#2

That would be the ideal solution, of course. But since we’re not living in an ideal world, I’d settle for crafted lightsabers being bound to the crafter since you have to attune the crystals to you.

#3

I would 100% support Lightsabers being made bound to the owner or something like that. I would very happily figure out another way to make credits, this is just a market I can have for a moment that is going to be killed soon either way. It kills me to be doing it but I know its going to end soon.

#4

Lightsabers in the old republic don’t have the mystique or rarity it does in the New Republic. Force users are abundant, entire planets are based around training them in lightsaber combat, and while a lightsaber -can- be a very personal ritual, the fact of the matter is that anyone with mechanical know how can create one, force user or not.

Lightsabers are actually impractical for non-force sensitives, which is why they aren’t utilized, but other beam weaponry are.

#5

It’s just something we’re going to have to get used to. There’s an over saturation of force users, that means an over saturation of lightsabers. It’s not as if non force users are utilizing them, it’s all force users. There’s no good reason for a non force user to try because a vibroblade is superior for non force. Making them more difficult to obtain, locking them behind crazy rules and turning them into rare objects to be awed from afar is just going to make it harder to play a force user.

This server was started with the ideal that players should be free to play how they want, every restriction you insist takes the server further from that Ideal, and even if we might not like it or agree it’s important to allow it to continue. I fo one am turned off by the sheer number of force users in general. But then I remember it’s the time period we’re in, they’re everywhere because they should be, just like sabers are everywhere because they should be. It’s a bit of a shock at first but I think it’s because I’m not used to the setting, I’m already getting over it.

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#6

Actually, we’re set in the time period where the sith are hunting down jedi wherever they can find them. This would also make it harder for the silly lightsaber market to exist and would imo improve jedi rp by promoting master/apprentice relationships.

Even if you don’t like the whole idea, I think we can at least benefit by keeping steps 10, 11, & 12 (putting the crystals behind a difficult dungeon)

#7

You can’t force people to rp master /apprentice relationships. Attempting to do so would be silly.
I think it is fine how it is, by the nature of making the force using in line with other options.
However sith hunting jedi is absolutely something the sith players can do.
As well as it could be an overall plot point.
If you don’t want the light saber market to exist, simply don’t make them the superior melee option.
Really sabers should do 1d10 at most as they are one handed weapons.

#8

nobody said anything about forcing. I said encourage and promote. BIIIIIG difference

#9

The chat my sith friend has seen suggests that openly hunting Jedi as a Sith is going to end quickly and badly for the Sith.

#10

Who you callin a sith, ya scruffy lookin nerf herder

:grin:

#11

Then those sith need to hire better help

#12

This seems to be a sticking point for a lot of people and I feel it warrants my (very limited) time. I’d much rather be working on the server issues but enough people have brought it up that I feel it needs to be addressed.

First off, I want to reiterate my philosophy about the server. This was designed from the beginning to allow you to do what you want, how you want, when you want. I knew very early on this wouldn’t sit well with everyone. Star Wars is very binary by nature - light side or dark side, good or evil. To me, this is incredibly boring and doesn’t make for interesting RP.

The best way to make this more interesting is to give you guys the tools you need to make the characters you want. The trade off for this is that maximum flexibility leads to weird situations like Mandalorian Jedi or whatever. Initially I was fine with this, for a few reasons:

A.) The potential player base was relatively small and I felt we could police it effectively.
B.) I felt leaving those options open would allow players to design unique, never-before-seen characters and effectively play them.
C.) When I think “Star Wars” I think Jedi, Sith, Lightsabers, etc. They’re core to the setting overall.

Clearly, we’ve gotten way more traction than I expected and it’s become a larger problem than I initially thought it would be. I still stand by initial assessment that players generally want to play a Force character and I still 100% believe we should provide that opportunity with limited-to-no restrictions. The fact that we have so many Jedi/Sith already is evidence enough to prove that.

Having said all of that, I don’t really like the fact that we have a lightsaber market. One of our DMs told me someone was selling them for 75 credits. That does feel like an immersion breaker, for sure.

Part of the reason for this is a lot of the Force stuff was changing right up until the last minute. In hindsight, it would have been better for us to fully flesh it out before releasing it. But hindsight’s 20/20.

There are a few things I DON’T want to do. Let me get those out of the way first:

1.) I don’t want to remove all lightsabers in existence. You built them, you earned them using existing mechanics. I won’t simply take them from you.
2.) I don’t want to lock anything behind character creation. So no “Force User” or “Jedi” backgrounds which exclusively gives you access to the force. If you start a character, you should be able to mold it into whatever you want. I am open to the idea of backgrounds enhancing your type of character, though.

Now there’s a few ideas we’ve tossed around and I’m not saying these are finalized ideas for how to address it - I’m simply mentioning what’s on my mind at the moment. This is a brainstorming session, NOT a “this is what we’re doing” decree.

1.) As a stop gap, we would introduce new components for lightsabers and put them behind base drilling. This would be temporary until we’ve got additional content made for the next few points.
2.) Using a lightsaber without completing the force quest would occasionally cause damage to yourself. Completing the quest would remove this penalty.
3.) Lightsaber crafting would fall under its own set of perks in the Lightsaber skill, instead of Engineering. These would become available after completing a quest.
4.) Training sabers would become available for purchase at some sort of Jedi/Sith temple or lore-relevant location.
5.) Force powers would be locked behind quests. “Basic” force abilities would be relatively easy to acquire so that you’re able to train the skills.
6.) The existing lightsaber quest would remain in place until/if we add individual ones for the Jedi/Sith.
7.) Long-term, lightsabers would be treated differently than normal weapons. Just spitballing here, but Naia suggested a way to customize and upgrade your lightsaber as you progress rather than creating a new one every time. Durability would most likely need to be changed to accommodate this.
8.) Additional force powers would be added.
9.) Some sort of limitation on lightsabers would be imposed. I.E: Bound to your character, receive damage if anyone else uses it, and so on. I don’t know the specifics at this current moment.

I realize these PROPOSED changes impact those of you who current play force characters. Again - my goal here isn’t to nerf you. I simply think my approach was wrong and want to adjust the ship’s course so that the integrity of the setting is left intact. You will be compensated in some way - more than likely a unique, free perk and a refund of all perks you purchased during the current setup. The rules surrounding this are TBD (as is everything else in this post).

Finally, I just want to thank those of you who came out and voiced your opinions. A small minority of you had problems, but didn’t come forth with them or propose solutions. I can’t fix what I don’t know is broken.

If you have a problem with the server, you need to voice that problem (in the appropriate channels!). It’s an open source project for a reason - I don’t have all the answers. Your feedback is vital to the long term success of the server.

Thanks all and I’m looking forward to a healthy, spirited discussion regarding my suggestions as well as the others mentioned in this thread (and others)!

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#13

I do want to put emphasis on a lightsaber being very unique to each jedi/sith and everyone should be able to customize and improve their saber without creating a new one. I think every character should be limited to ONE saber and if they lose it they need to get it back(it can be marked as a plot item and can lead to AMAZING rp when thought about). Force powers as well should be unique and you shouldn’t be able to pick up force heal because you have been raising your crafting skills and have some SP to dump, I think you can have a much more natural progression with force and start with a very weak force push and as you continue training you open up the path for more skills (mind trick,force speed and stuff like that being more advanced skills and jedi/sith using these skills would be notable characters because of it). I really want people to be somewhat unique and have attributes/characteristics that might make them stand out in the crowd, at the moment none of the jedi are significant because of the sheer amount of them.

#14

Honestly, I think this is the best way to go about things in the generalist of senses, but I can’t comment to hard without specifics of how all those points are to be made! I do understand it’s a work in progress though and kinda can’t wait to see more details.

#15

*The idea of force users constructing a single set of lightsabers that can be utilized throughout the course of their lifetime that can then be upgraded over time sounds incredible and fantastic. A force user could be limited to constructing two one-handed lightsabers and one saberstaff over the course of their lifetime which would give lightsabers a sense of uniquity.

*I do NOT support lightsabers themselves being permanently bound to the force user in question. I think that lightsabers should be able to be pilfered, destroyed, collected as bounties, or sold if they can be wrenched away from their respective Jedi, Sith, or Unaligned force user.

*We need more force powers. Ideally a basic set of Push [Knockdown], Pull [Disarm] for generic force powers. I would recommend a stance that can be acquired with 10 ranks in either a ‘Neutral’ Force Ability line or in either the Dark or Light side that would allow for users to recover FP using any melee weapon, not just batons. Perhaps something like:

Light
Aura [+AC in an area]
Heal [Self-Explanatory]
Meditation [+AB in an Area]
Valor [+Saves in an area]

Dark
Berserk [+++AB/Damage/Will/Fortitude to Self / -AC/Reflex to Self]
Lightning [Direct Damage]
Disease [DoT/Attribute Decrease]
Choke [DoT/Stun]

Neutral
Push [Knockdown]
Pull [Disarm]

I do NOT support locking force powers behind quests, but I DO support entry-level dark and light-side abilities being locked behind a Neutral Force Ability requirement.

*I support specialized components being placed behind base drilling [so that Unaligned people can start their own academies/temples], as well as being placed behind Jedi or Sith faction-aligned bases [Jedi Temple/Sith Academy]

#16

So for your proposed solutions Zunath.

  1. As long as it is a temporary thing I see no issue with this, but forcing people to make a base to build a saber long term I do not think would be healthy for the freedom of the players to branch out on their own.
  2. I dislike this idea, it sounds interesting at first, but I think being trained to use a light saber should not require a quest, a Master giving their padawan a lightsaber to help train them when they are starting out is not unheard of and I think this would be detrimental to that kind of rp.
  3. I like this a lot.
  4. It could be interesting but I think it would increase their prevalence not lower it so I think it is counter to what you are trying to do. That being said, when you start the quest to learn to craft them I could see getting a training saber from the quest giver as beneficial.
  5. I dislike this, unless they are open to all force users not just Jedi/Sith, otherwise it hurts people that want to be part of other force traditions.
  6. This is a good idea.
  7. I dislike this, in lore they break, are damage, and have to be remade or fixed often enough that feels odd to me, also Jedi having multiple sabers is not even that unheard of. They will make different styled sabers for different purposes. I would rather err on the side of freedom on this.
  8. Sounds good, more is better.
  9. I dislike this for a lot of the same reasons I dislike 2, I think the better thing to reduce this would be to give a bonus for using a saber you built rather then a penalty for using one someone else made, but I prefer to encourage with bonuses rather then discourage with penalties.
    But if you are set on penalties I would say the big one would be, if you didn’t make the saber you get a penalty on your saber skill well using it. This would turn off perks, lower ab, and make it very unattractive overall to use other peoples sabers.

In closing I really don’t want to see sabers made into a super special unique weapon because that will just encourage them to be more prevalent among the population, even if it kills the market they will still be flooding the server with the sheer volume of people using them.

#17

I like your ideas a lot, except for the (tempoaray) need requirement of a base drill. Not every player is interested in having a base or joining a player faction that has one and it could potentially have certain factions attain a monopoly on those components. Unless we have the option of attaining those components from Jedi/Sith temples as well.

I’m very much in support of lightsabers being bound to their crafters. Yes, there are cases in the lore where lightsabers were traded, taken as trophies, inherited, etc. but these special situations could (and should) be handled by a DM.

#18

My issue is that it seems - and I might be totally off the mark - that people are taking light and dark side force powers because they have quite strong early game benefits. Similarly with lightsabers. Had a thought about this earlier, so I’ll lay that out first and then comment on Zunath’s ideas.

Initial force powers are extremely limited and don’t get good for a while. It’s fine to be freeform with Jedi and Sith, but maybe it’s better if those people show commitment to the concept by taking a hit early to be strong later? Taking some of BlackVanguard’s suggestions and tweaking them, Force powers might look something like this:

Light Side:
Valor [+1 to all saves to yourself at rank 1, increasing by 1 per perk point until 8, at which point every 2nd perk you invest in it you get temporary HP +1 instead of a bonus to saves and every third level you start giving +1/+2/+3 etc. to all saves an area around you instead of to yourself]

Meditation [+1 to AC every 2 perk points you invest until 8, at which point every 2nd perk you invest in it you get +1 AB and every 3rd perk you give +1/+2/+3 AC etc. in an around around yourself]

Dark Side:
Berserk [+1 AB / -1 AC at perk 1, +1 Fort / -1 Reflex at perk level 2 carrying on until 8, at which point every 2nd perk you invest in it you gain +2 temporary HP but when the effect ends you take 1 damage for every +2 temporary HP you’ve gained]

Disease [Actually diseases the enemy which lowers their attributes by -1 STR / -1 DEX every 3 ranks starting at rank 1, -1 WIS / -1 INT every 3 ranks starting at rank 2 until 8 and then every 2nd perk you invest it has a chance to apply wounding for 2 rounds.]

Numbers are probably super off here, and those dark side powers may be stronger than I’m giving them credit for, but the concept of much slow power gain is there. Maybe just having Valor for Jedi and Berserk for Sith until they’re at rank 15 and have their Force quest completed for the second powers listed. Maybe rank 20 or 25 for the next, and so on.

As for the lightsaber issue, all I’ll say is I like the idea of people who aren’t attuned having a chance to damage themselves when using them. I like ithe idea of lightsabers progressing in power with the wielder, I like the idea of Lightsaber crafting being its own skill tree, and I agree that lightsabers shouldn’t be bound to their maker.

Hope this is constructive.

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#19

I just wanted to throw in that during that time period, Lightsabers were not an uncommon sight at all.

If that was the New Republic Era then I would agree.

Edit: That said, I wouldn’t mind if those that do not have the required level in the skill should hurt them self.

#20

I just wanted to throw in that during that time period, Lightsabers were not an uncommon sight at all.

What’s your source?
We’re in the period right before KOTOR1, which means the Sith War, and the Sith have been hunting jedi down wherever they can find them and killing them. This was a particularly hard time for the jedi order. In this time period, if you saw somebody wielding a lightsaber, it was probably because the Sith have come to occupy your world. For systems NOT involved in the active war going on, seeing a lightsaber WOULD be rare because people with lightsabers would be busy fighting the war themselves, because 99% of ppl with lightsabers were either jedi or sith, the latter outnumbering the former.