Force Rebalance numbers and things

General Feedback
#1

Since we got the rebalance with all the new powers and finally using them in places I wouldn’t have thought too on the test server, I’ve noticed a few issues.

I will start by saying my force stats are 45(+17) int, 49 (+19) wis, and 32(+11) cha, saberthrow is rank 3 (Which is the max I can get as unspecced or as a consular/sentinel in general).

Now with my piddy 16(+3) strength, when I use saber throw I do only 44 damage. A karth hounds takes 2 to 3 hits to kill. Now against Vellen fleshrenders it takes about 4 with max roles, 5 average, to 6 at worst to kill 1. That’s 30 to 45 fp for a karth found and 90 at average for the fleshrender.

Now, this might seem fine but that is with my near maxed force stats. Anyone who has nowhere near mine is going to have it a lot worse. Mon Cala, most the stuff there takes 8 to 9 saber throws. It gets very costly to defeat one mob very quickly, and I have 316 fp.

The damage needs to be tweaked, also another issue is that if you’re a non-darkside user, Saberthrow is your only offensive power outside of Force push until you get the consular spec… Breach should likely be given at lower rank for unspeced. The whole point of when I suggested Saber throw was to give another offensive option for non-darkside users, not to be our ONLY until we get our specilization. Which is gated behind lots of RP. (Not my specific concern here, but only having one damaging power is an issue)

Also for the life of me, I can’t get stun or push to actually work, they always resist it and I have the max ranks you can get without the specilization. At least I’ve gotten stun to work once, and for how long the cooldown is on stun/push, it is just… not worth it. (I have max cooldown reduction, I don’t know where it caps, but I have 100% so I know I hit the cap regardless)

Last thing, concentration powers need to changed on the drain rate, they should be moved to like one tick a round or turn, I forget what one is shorter. It also is an issue to only have one concentration up at a time, but that can be an issue for a seperate thread. To really expound on the FP ticks being to fast, if you start using stuff like saber throw, your FP just disappears very very fast. I know I can’t even fight anything on Mon Cala alone without heal on and sometimes even then it is a close fight.

So! I’d raise the damage on saber throw, I can’t test other powers cause I don’t take the darkside powers. But I assume lightning and force drain would have the same issue, maybe not.

I’d also reduce the FP cost of Saber throw and other things, and reduce the FP drain tick speed. The server refresh just can’t keep up for any extended use without needing to meditate every time Meditate comes off Cooldown.

#2

I agree some things need to be looked at.
For instance heal is the best healing in the game right now because it will burst heal you around 30 hp a round. this is because it fires off every second instead of per round.
The others all seem to be per round from what I have seen, I had no problems with the other abilities being too fast.
Have you invested into fp cap/fp regen mods or enhancements?
As for saber throw, 40 damage a round is not that bad, as well as you have fp packs to help offset this.
And the old method of use the ability once and have someone else help you.

#3

What’s available to me isn’t to everyone else though. While I could circumvent the problem with force packs, others cannot. Since you have to have medicine skill to even use them to begin with. But yes, Force heal is nuts due to how it ticks and it should be looked at if it is going to remain a HoT.

The problem with 40 damage is that, the mobs have to much HP. Remember, these numbers are based off my stats which are only 10 points off being maxed per force stat. Not everyone else has that, which means it is worse for them. But the problem largely is the FP cost vs the damage done.

Also yes, I have the FP perk, no I don’t have regen mods as I still use largely what I had from before the re-balance.

But the fact is, I can’t do Vellen Fleshrenders anymore. I have 500 sp and still mostly good gear outside of my AC being crap (Which I just haven’t fixed yet). I haven’t been effective with my force powers, it takes to long to kill things or they are resisted a majority of the time. (I have literally only gotten Force Stun to work against a Kath hound once.) and I cannot kill anything very well without Althea’s help on Mon Cala, given Rank 3 Saber throw is the max you can do and my int is 45(+17) and it is the only offensive power a non-darkside user gets, the low damage is an issue.

#4

Your damage is nowhere near max for saber throw.
Saber throw is damage bonus on the saber+2d6+int mod+str mod
So lets assume a +1 damage weapon, (1+7+17+3)*1.6 so average damage 44 with saber throw 3.
If you want to deal more damage with it you need to boost your str up, and probably get a weapon with a better damage property on it.

#5

That is the whole problem; it punishes builds who can’t do that. I don’t get strength in my build and it is LITERALLY the only offense power I have that does damage. Anyone who plays the same will be in the same boat, but would have it worse.

#6

So if we make you a saber with +9 damage on it, and get you +12 str from mods.
You will wind up with 24 bonus damage.
That effectively increases your damage output by 50ish%
And would make your average damage 67
Damage range would be 59-75
A vellen has 208 or 212 hp
This would be at your current average 5 casts per kill, with the equipment boost it would be 4 casts at most.
Also it is worth keeping in mind that it doesn’t seem to have any way to miss.

#7

I think you missed the point. The point is, as a non-guardian build, who has no other real investment in strength, I have to go out of my way to make -one- power useful by investing in a stat that is otherwise not worthwile to me. The same can be said with the guardian side of it too. They wont really have high int. However the guardian side of it has the benefit of actually being able to bash things over the head with a lightsaber, so its fine that they don’t do high damage with it.

But as you fight stronger enemies with more HP, the damage scaling on Saber throw is always going to become an issue.

#8

You can’t miss, it takes the whole round to do and that’s assuming you build that way. The problem is that is the ONLY offensive force power until you unlock a spec. With numbers like that unless you build that specific thing, which the spec doesn’t reward, then you’re having a really bad time having a use. Not to mention starting out, it is a very poor move considering you cannot use it without a lightfoil, and even if you do get one the damage is very low compared to the fp used to just kill one thing.

#9

Okay then, let’s look at just building a good saber.
with the stuff I currently have I could build a saber pretty easily that is +6 damage base and then let’s do +6 from mods.
that would change your damage to 12+7+17+1 for an average damage of 59, meaning on average you are killing vellans in 4 casts.
And this is by no means near the cap of what you can do.
Four rounds to kill something sounds really good to me especially when you can’t miss.

#10

You’re again missing the point, you’re so focused on end results you miss the road to get there. People are not going to kill things with this before they run out of FP is they want this playstyle. People also don’t have alternative options. THis is the ONLY offensive move. It has not only restricted a whole play style but it’s become a horrible investment compared to anything else

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#11

a suggestion i have to help is that seeing as telekinesis si a basic power most jedi have some grip on, perhaps add that, it can throw rocks, debris, other people, ect, plus this would help work into saber throw by making it a requirement for saber throw.

…just my two cents really

#12

I can say I did not experience this when testing with my force user, granted I didn’t goto mon cal because I was not geared for even fighting velans effectively. But the things I did fight on viscara I had no problems with saber throw aside from aoos.
Even if I just keep the bare minimum of boosts for saber throw to be effective well leveling I am still going to be looking at, lets say an str of 16 after mods and stats, and an int of 20 overall, with throw 1, and a saber with damage bonus 4
This is going to get us 3+7+5+4 for an average of 30 damage
(This is probably because throw 1 looks bugged as it also does 1.6 damage)
So even if we round it down to no damage multiplier it is 19 damage per throw.
Which is not bad for a starting ability. Throw 2 is 1.25 so lets use it instead.
So 19*1.25 for 23 damage on average, kath hounds have 60 hp, average 3 casts. That seems fine to me.

#13

I’m only gonna make a short post right now as I’m really tired and about to head to bed. Let me just point out that Aedan has a rather inferior overall build compared to all of you guys. I am honestly seeing zero issue with anything related to the current capabilities of saber throw. The only problem I can see is that the code needs looking at because Saber Throw II is weaker than I for some reason. But putting that aside, it may get small tweaks, but I see very little problem with the damage, especially seeing as it’s a 100% chance to hit.

As for alternatives to saber throw, it’s not really on topic for this particular thread. But also with the above, I’d like to point out as well that you build your character as you wish. If your character isn’t capable of doing something, then you get others to try to assist with it through crafting. Other than that, it’s on you if you can’t do something because of your build. You’re not meant to be someone who can do anything and everything, after all.

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#14

But it is an issue…I can tell you, I can SHOW YOU in game how long it takes me to kill something with Saber throw 3, I don’t know how you can refute that.

But as a counter point; A very well geared character with all their SP and near max stats shoudn’t be struggling in a low-level-area. It’s not about not doing everything ever, it’s about how I can barely do one thing with the tools that are presented. Ask Althea how difficult I had with Mon Cala, they got to watch. So please don’t give me that, I worked hard to get where I was. I don’t need to be the most powerful, but I would like the time investment that I’ve spent to not just be disregarded as “Get help, don’t do things alone”.

#15

So this ability cares about 3 things on your character, sabers damage bonus, only the + damage property.
Your STR, your Int.
with 500 sp and good gear your int should be over 50, your damage bonus should be near 10, and str you said you dont want to invest into, so we will ignore boosting it.

Alter is all based on int now from what I am seeing.
Now I just tested fighting Raivors with my force user at 331 sp, basicaly no gear, and it took me five casts to kill the ravior with an average damage of 24, Stats are 22 str 14 int, no damage bonus on saber, so I am doing 8+7 15*1.6 damage for 24 damage on average.

Edit and I got totally distracted from my point, your damage even without boosting str should be somewhere around 20+10+3+7 for 40*1.6 for 64 average damage

#16

My int will be at 50 when my ranks get put in Alter. It’s just hard to level alter for a very different reason (Accidently stabbing things while your lightsaber is rank 47, but that’s a me problem.) But, now if you were to go do Vellen’s with that, it would take you more than 4 to 5 which it generally takes me.

#17

And like I said this is ungeared.
If I was geared I would be able to easily do Vellens, I should have at least +6 str, +4 int, and +4 damage
That would give me another 14ish damage. putting me at 38 that would be an average of six casts.
If I actualy geared properly I would have +12 str, +12 int, and probably +6 damage for an extra 28 damage, putting it upto 52, this would kill them in about 4 casts.

#18

Okay but are you just going for a guardian spec; or are you going for counsular like me. Cause as stated, that is the issue. Counsular only has one power piror to getting the spec, and because of how you build for cousular, building specifically to make saberthrow good means you may as well go guardian instead.

So either we get more than saberthrow, or the damage gets scaled up. Because again, stat wise I am not undergeared. Prior to the rebalance I was force breaching for 395 damage. The only thing I really lost from it was my AC, and obviously breach. Also my lightsabers were built with casting and defense in mind; as every attempt to make a +damage saber failed, due to the fact that making lightsabers with properties was (Is it still?) really difficult since engineering bonus didn’t effect it.

#19

Mods don’t fail.
And you are built more for wisdom then int from what you showed me, which is not good for saber throw.

#20

I’m with Terallis and TYK on this one. Saber throw is fine as is, especially considering it hits to 100%. As someone who uses saberthrow a lot, I absolutely don’t think it needs to be any stronger.
Some of the results with Jaycen (Saber throw 3, STR +5, INT +4, Saber damage +9):

Viscara:

Kath hounds: 2 hits
Warocas: 3 hits
Kinraths: 2 hits
Outlaws: 2 hits
Crystal spiders: 2-3 hits
Mando Warriors: 3-4 hits
Mando Rangers: 3 hits
Cairmog: 4-5 hits
Cairnmog Alpha: 6 hits

Mon Cala:

Amphi-Hydrus: 2 hits
Vipers: 2 hits

Also, to put this into perspective… fighting the same foes in melee generally takes twice as many hits.
Sorry, but I don’t think that’s too weak. If anything, it could be a little cheaper but that’s about it.

Regarding another attack option for light side…yes, that would be good.