Was it prior to or post the balance update? Also, was this a NPC or a player?
Again, its about balance. Jedi can already be gods over everyone else, they dont need a weapon to make them even more godly over other players, crying that you cant kill everything because its too tough for you, sorry but as a balance stance I can see it staying as Valid, take a second weapon, its not that complicated, Most jedi on the server use a balance of 2-3 weapons.
Both, and Player.
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That is not true, jedi consulars, wich is a specialization can do that. A jedi guardian has not many options, the sentinel has even less. Also, the fact that jedi go around in the server with other weapons is not a really good argument. The fact is that they shouldn’t. Vibroblades, blasters, etc… Are cruel weapons, they deliver unnecesary pain to who suffers them, this is one of the main reasons obi wan calls blasters uncivilized.
Guardian has the strongest offensive power in the game.
On the test server it was doing over 200 damage to three targets at a time with no resistance or to hit.
I’m pretty sure a guardian can’t even come close to those damage numbers, except maybe with a rank 5 Saber Throw and that only if he’s specifically built for that.
A Jedi focused on lightsaber combat is pretty sad compared to a skilled blaster or vibro user. You’re basically forced to dual wield since we lack a twohanded option (no, saberstaffs don’t count… they are actually dual wielded) or you won’t do really that much damage.
I know this is a nightmare to balance…
Not an option, sorry… a shield fits a Jedi not one bit.
A lightsaber duelist should be using light armor and shields honestly.
One - Obiwan takes place THOUSANDS of years in the future
Two - I have advocated several times for moving the attacks off Consular because it legit doesnt make sense for a Consular.
Three - We are not in a movie, there HAS to be balance in other forms.
Four - There sometimes HAS to be exceptions to Cannon lore for the server to work, or NO ONE would EVER be able to challange a Jedi/Sith, and we would 100% be them all the time.
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They make total sense for a consular, consulars are the ones that canonically study the force and develop techniques such as morichro, malacia, etc… What doesn’t make sense is that lightsabers are objetively the worst weapon of the server. Also, throw lightsaber is op, yes, but that can be balanced simply making it need a to-hit roll.
Counsulars are Healers, Diplomats and otherwise, yes I know this because I actually play a Consular, though most of the moves make more sense for a Guardian and possibly Sentinel to use, not a Consular as Consulars avoid using violence till absolutely necessary
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Also i do not agree with you, ira, in my opinion roleplay shouldnt focus on what is more op or not, just in what you want to rp. I personally believe sith to be more powerfull than jedi in the server yet I like Rping a jedi and that is what i do
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Your sitting here having a fit because of whats Movie cannon for the lore also,
Jedi did use other weapons then just Sabres, also also,
They also used shields, may wanna fact check your information before saying its not cannon.
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Lightsabers are not objectively the worst, that honor goes to blaster rifles, who need a perk to even attack more then once per a round, and get less attacks then anything else using two hands offensively
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Jedi used other weapons prior to the creation of lightsabers, also, jedi weaponmasters learned how to use different weapons but that is a specialization of a specialization and it is extremely uncommon for them to use said weapons, even if trained in their use. Yet, jedi use lightsabers. Mace windu is a jedi weapon master, still, he always uses a lightsaber (as many other examples of jedi weapon masters)
Jedi consulars can specialize on jedi sages. Force powers like morichro (yaddle was one of the few to mastering the technique) or malacia (oppo) are performed usually by jedi consulars, for other examples, master yoda is a consular, nomi sunrider is one too and satele shan is another one. All of them are known for being able to do incredible attacks through the force. Sure, consulars are pacifists, but they know more of the force than anyone else.
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The light-shield is not official canon though and never was approved by Lucasfilm Ltd.
So, yeah, my point still stands… shields don’t fit a Jedi and I certainly won’t use one, even if it makes me worse in combat than everybody else.
You don’t have to if that doesn’t suit you ICly, just because they MAKE some of the forms, doesn’t mean they always use them, and I STILL advocate for them to be MOVED so people finally stop crying over how OP the Consular actually is over others, and yet you guys still find a reason to whine on why it shouldn’t be, make up your damn minds. We ARE NOT IN A MOVIE get over it already, some things are NOT gonna be like they are in the MOVIES. Namely because some things HAVE to balance against the rest of the server. Geez.
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Well, I guess we all stablished our reasons and arguments on this topic, untill someone adds a different point of view I don’t see much a point to continue discussing over the same, our positions are pretty clear over the issue and it is obvious it is a matter of points of view.
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Its out of topic but in regards to something said earlier: Consulars cannot hit for 400 damage anymore. That was pre-rebalance, and it was something everyone on the server to theoretically do. Breach does not hit nearly as hard. I hit for minimum most times depending on the DC roll, and occasionally double damage if I roll in the 90s on a DC roll. Which is to say, I have not yet hit over 200 damage, closer to 60 to 120. Way less damage than anyone with high amounts of APR, Max strength, and a decent weapon can produce.
Lightsabers are not good compared to normal weapons; when you understand that property transfer rate is shit for lightsabers as there is no way to increase the transfer rate unlike vibro/blasters. Throwsaber is just AoE, it cannot hit for 200+ damage without max str, int, and high weapon damage, I have told TYK this many times. 70 str is +30, 1d10+30+10+2* 250% (Assuming +10 damage mod on saber and +2 int mod for guardians not having int) is 117.5 damage. 10+30+30+10* 250% is 200 exactly. You need 70 int and 70 STR and a +10 bonus saber. A guardian character will not reach that, they just wont. Now, a character with a vibrosword with +30str mod, 15 damage bonus (Which is easier to get than a lightsaber, hell +10 is hard for a lightsaber) and 5 APR, lets pretend two handed vibro user is going to hit for 1d10+45+15, average is 5, so 75 baseline, critting for 150. 5 APR dpending on a persons AC is gonna at least get three hits through, 3*75=225. Much easier to do, less effort compared to sabers. CHA to sabers just makes up for the lack of bonus damage that is hard to get. Plus Lightsabers have shit feats. If we factor in POWER ATTACK for instance, the vibro user’s damage spikes by an additional +5 damage, +10 on crit.
Do the math, factor in the amount of effort it takes vs the two. Stop spreading misinformation. Sabers are not that good, they are just over used because people want to play a Jedi, or let me go get Shade with her amazing vibroaxe she had who can hit harder with it. Blasters suck compared to Melee weapons, yes, they didn’t used too. Consaquence of the rebalance, but strickly speaking if you look at a lore stand point, in the era we’re in Blasters were awful and most people used vibroweapons.
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So just using a built I slapped together without trying to hit max str, I would need 16 +3 str mods to hit cap, this averages out to two mods per armor slot if we include rings.
Int would be about the same.
It is totally doable with current things in the game.
Damage you can put +damage mods in your lightsaber, it has 3 slots so can be +9 from just mods before putting more slots on it which is also not difficult.
Why would you build int on a guardian? You’re missing core state to survive in combat to do so for what? A move that is worse in combat then just attacking?
But this has again gone so off topic. First of all let me clear some air, with a base teir 4 foil I deal about 40-60 damage a hit. Now that is an estimation. To reach this number I have 70 str and 69 cha. Thats 30 str mod and 29 cha mod. In reality cha barely helps my damage, it’s basically completely from str as I get 7.5 from cha. However what I can make with a lightsaber is limited compared to any other weapon, when you factor in transfer rates and no crafting skills something like a blaster will easily outdamage it with property transfers. If I wanted to add +17 damage I may never get it to succeed all while another could keep pumping them out
Second of all blasters are easily one of the strongest, if not the strongest weapons in the game. Blaster rifles has the best cc which is easy to go off and blaster pistols has good damage. Factor in the easy to craft method and the fact it is range so you can actually kite and you can do much with it. Blasters can easily out damage lightsabers and have done so for months in the past.
Now about str not scaling off str I can get behind that notion. People who want to use lightsabers and the force are in a horrible spot to begin with, with how poor the stat distributions are and more importantly how tight sp is for them. Trying to increase way too many stats at once does them no favours too. A non force user basically has to worry about str/Dex/con or I’d your a blaster user just Dex/con. That’s a huge advantage in star spreads that people don’t talk about, Jedi need to essentially worry about every stat in the game. So refining what a Jedi needs will help them achieve what they should be doing so the stats can actually be focused.
Also on the topic of sabers going through di I think that is something to be considered with enemies. Having a high enough enchantment bonus to go through a foes dr is normal on nwn, so applying that here will do well. It will incentivise progression in weapons to get the better versions on it but it will apply to all weapons not just sabers.
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so…I’ve been to Hutlar on both Jacen and Tara.
Jacen is my blaster jockey and Tara is my saber jockey.
Jacen utterly destroys everything on Hutlar with a basic Tier IV blaster.
Tara is OKAY against slugs, dies against byssks, and can only survive tigers if she uses a blaster. I’d say lightsabers are anything BUT overpowered on Hutlar, while blasters are like easy mode.
Lore-wise, lightsabers absolutely should demolish anything organic that does not have some kind of armor. Tigers dont have armor, therefore it makes no sense for lightsabers to not do much to them.
Balance wise? Hutlar is easy for ranged people but hard for force users. Force armor just does not do much for me on Hutlar. And my force powers that are supposed to augment my AC don’t augment it enough to make an actual difference and don’t last very long anyway. So wouldn’t hurt balance to lower the difficulty for saber users while raising it slightly for ranged.
Yeah, throw saber works against tigers, but the damage output on that is also low because you can only use it once per 4-10 seconds depending on if you have any cooldown reduction.which equals out to roughly one attack per turn. That makes a single tiger barely survivable, again, while a blaster user just demolishes everything on the planet.